Music and Philosophy

Comment

Comment by Juliano on May 8, 2009 at 8:48am

hmmmm well you know that also the THEORY of evolution is also just that--a theory? And that it has been used for the toxic myths of 'survival of the fittest', 'Eugenics' and justifying 'animal experimentation'---because in this mindset animals are merely in the 'satges' of 'evolution' to 'higher levels'''''to 'us' as the 'perfect speciman'

No, man I dont believe in a patriarchal 'Creator' neither. I think what we are a part of is a very deep profound mystery that really is not for assuming beliefs that will give the excuse to bring other species and/or people into subservience which is what has happened

because as in religion and 'science' there has been made the idea that SOME people are 'like animals' (this is after animals have been downgraded) and therefore are fit to be treated like animals

And we do this to ourselves. We are educated to distrust our animal nature, and see it as degenerative.

And then you have the--for example 'Satanists' etc who embrace what they believe is animal nature, but have already defined it as without morals and bloody and ruthless.

These, for me, are all dangerous myths which will act out and do, as our history has and continues to show

Comment by Big Beado on May 8, 2009 at 8:36am

......and this is where we depart course. I am staying out of the intelligent design argument. I will say that over the course of Billions of years. Trillions of species appeared in their own right. Had no adaptablity, and then died off? I don't buy it. These people are the same who claimed the humanity is only 5000 years old because it's in the bible, nevermind the fossil record.

Comment by Juliano on May 3, 2009 at 5:16am

Just like to say that the indigenous understanding of our 'relations' , ie., animals are that they are as they are. Not that we are somehow 'special' because we have 'evolved' to some 'higher consciousness', so in their stories, for example, they will Raven as the creator----etc

The Raven is a being in its own right, with powers we don't have, but in certain states oc consciousness my be able to experience, etc

I much prefer this to the Darwinian-influenced notions of animals in states of evolution , their goal the ...human...?

Lookin at MANY humans I think i'd rather BE a Raven!

Comment by Big Beado on May 2, 2009 at 5:29pm

I couldn't agree with you more Juliano. All matter is merely energy condensed into a slow rythmic vibration. This is a tenet of String theory.
No I do not claim that Animals are somehow inferior to Man in the sense of which you speak, and yes, Animal testing is wrong. I've just been dabbling in the theory that a majority (if not all) of earthbound species have not evolved higher forms of consciousness( although they're are wonderful studies that do indeed prove Chimpanzees, and certain Macaw Monkeys have developed self recognition.) All Animals are evolving past the reptilian brain at different rates. Man Just happens to be (that we know) one of the first to break a higher plane of sentient thought. I don't think animals as a primitive, instinctual. atomatons bent on survival, but evolving species art various degrees.

Who knows, it is an interesting line of thinking. Thank you for indulging my philo/science side of my mind.

Comment by Juliano on May 2, 2009 at 2:13pm

Let me try explain my perspective a bit.
My way--if you like is to feel into a continuum of dyhnamic being between humans and the natural order. So why would I want to encourage this?

Ftrom looking round I see that there has come about this schism between our sense of ourselves and other species. That whereas in earlier storytelling, In indigenous traditions and even ancient Greece, like with Aeosops Fables, you have the animals and all others species as a continuum with us, as our 'relations'

There is a really great book I highly recommend that goes into all the in great depth called An Unnatural Order: The Roots of Our Destruction of Nature, Jim Mason

The very name 'animal' comes from 'anima' which means soul, and this means that we understand our very selves through animals. Through their ways. So we are all continuum.

But what happens is very ugly as more and more animals and all other species become disrespected. and this is set down in words, and then you get 'important thinkers' such as Rene Descartes who claims animals have no souls, and this creates the thriving industry of animal torture and death called 'animal vivisection', which as you know is as busy today as it ever was with millions of animals in its vile clutches. But the proponents of it and their supporters will argue that only humans are important so the means justify the end.

meanwhile in the arts, I tend to see a similar mindset (sorry I dont mean to oeffend, I am just sharing how I feel things. I dont mean you are into AV etc) when onlt humans are thought to be creative, and the animals are supposed to be just about 'survival'. I have heard people argue how awful it must be for an animal always living in danger etc etc

But what about a Dawn Chorus? The scientist (and by saying that I mean that most experts now HAVE to be 'scientific' to even be acknowledged) will explain that most amazing happening in very dry un poetic terms--orf birds claiming their territory..whatever. But I am hoping that the poetic, the musicians, the dancers, singers...those who know sacred medicine?entheogens understand the MUSIC of it, the sacredness of it as the sun rises

I see all matter energy AS vibration/sound/music..........hence music as we do it comes from that deep source, and this is a playful continuum which ALL beings share, includings stones, and ....the air, ,,,,everything, and space

Comment by Big Beado on May 2, 2009 at 9:59am

Yes, there is a thing called sacred geometry in nature, and the lay lines of the earth holding elimental power. Of course imagery is powerful, even in it's most natural form. I do agree that, on some level, image and sound go hand in hand. Their are some the actually perceive image AS sound.....So who can definitely say.
But if the natural order of things could express such understandings of image, wouldn't they? I realize we cannot totally fathom what another creature experiences as reality, but if they could understand highly conceptualized imagery. Wouldn't they strive to create their own? Man is the only creature that developed the luxury of art. Once survival was assured, We devoted freetime to artistic pursuits.
A instinctual creature with nothing more than survival on the brain would not have the slightest conception of such pursuit, it would mean almost certain demise.
My arguement is that music somehow transcends this realm. Does image hold such an important role for survival as music? (I.E. communication in many species) I don't believe it does, however important. There is something otherworldly beneficial in sound to all creation.

Also as a side note. Sound, and smell, are the oldest, and most primitive sensations of the evolved brain. The structures that control them are simplistic, yet serve as some of the most informative senses that exist.

bb

Comment by Juliano on April 25, 2009 at 4:29pm

But isn't image also primeval, and can it be said to be fidderent than sound which is music.
Not sure if you have read Alan Watts, book The Joyous Cosmology....It is an amazing jewel of abook, I cannot recommend it highly enough---it has amazing illustratins of natural patterns, on feather, stone, etc etc (order it now '))
In the book, Alan is combining psychedelic experiences he has had, and written them as one Trip--full of insights

He desribes observing hills and a rumbling sound that can be heard is not separate from the observation

I have experienced this. What ordinarily may seem like noise, and disconnected from what you feel--the chair your sat in, the things you touch look at is really interweaved with the sound/music

We have a busy road not that far from us----often when it may sound noisy it would piss me off, but I had this shroom experience where i got so into the sounds...was like 'swishhhhhhhh~~~swishhhhhhh~~~~ssss, etc It was music

I have heard creaks, a screetch of tyres --in ordinary perception that has reminded me of a bit of a pice of music composition, and have wondered if the composer got his idea from something like that....?lol

How will animals experience the interweaving tapestry of image and sound? Which animal? How can we tell..............I cannot tell how you do, nor you me

I saw a great video a short while ago, it wa the Thelonious Monk Quartet, and someone in the comments put 'he is painting'

Comment by Big Beado on April 25, 2009 at 4:11pm

Yes the question of sensation being a subjective experience is not the point of the discussion here. Of course everyone experiences their realities differently. What I am getting at is, on a very primitive level, how much further does music delve into those subjective realities more than any other Artform. If we, as a species, functioned entirely on a instinctual basis, would we comprehend highly evolved forms of art? I don't think we would. Art wouldn't exist as we know it. Music, however, would manifested itself in some from and would certainly be with us. It's as almost if music is the most primitive artform, and at the sametime, the most spiritual. It can transcend deep into the most ancient forms of consciousness. It can go where no other Art could even dare

If music was a religous sect, it would be the gnostic animist.

Comment by Dan Pendleton on April 18, 2009 at 2:55pm

Izat why I can't type.....or speak in anything but phrases? No complete sentences? WTF? LOL!

Comment by Dan Pendleton on April 18, 2009 at 2:54pm

Mike....I think you hit it right on the head!.....Dbl B, I get it. .....and they said guitarists were "stoopid hippies"!! The fact that we are working this discussion shows me that on top of the gift to be able to make music, we are also aware of a different level of conciousness not all can see. For instance; When there is one of the "new" TV ads showing, the first thing I think is of the artist that did the background music. A lot of them are very recognizable and despite what product is being promoted, the first thing I (and probably most of you) do is a very basic "Name that Tune". My wife has gotten used to it.....my buddies think I'm "out there" with music, not including my bandmates.....Knowing that I see, feel, hear, smell and taste things differently.....as does everybody....music is the epitome of my struggle to communicate with everything and everybody. Other people have different methods.....some are questionable to me, but to them it's the only way they can see, feel, hear, smell, etc.....communicate with everything! When I play music to the different types of people.....and we communicate albeit on a very basic level, THAT is what music is to me AND them! Are we communicating our thoughts?.....Maybe but for sure we are communicating our hearts and souls and that binds us all together.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 7
• Next ›
• Page